The vaping world can be pretty cut-throat Ico. It is my understanding that companies have to heavily moderate their reviews (I even know a few vendors that refuse to have reviews on their site). Rival companies have been known to post negative reviews on each others websites in order to persuade people to come to their site instead. I mean you never know if someone that posts "This juice sucks, buy from XYZ instead" is a real person expressing their true opinion, or just a rep for XYZ trying to drum up business.
Originally Posted by ico
*NOTE* This is purely a response to Ico and my personal opinion on the matter from what I've seen/heard around the internets. It is in no way directed at anyone other than Ico for information purposes.
It has also been my experience that reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. I mean, beyond the fact that taste is subjective some people are paid to put out positive reviews. The best way to find out if something is good or not is to find a source you trust.
BHam, I will get you the info you asked for.
endemic, your tangent kind of threw me off what you are trying to say.
Ms ytsirhC, if that is the case, why is it that they are "cheaping out" on flavor? I can get 50ml of VG for under $10USD. To add so little flavoring? If that is their norm? How is that defendable as a manufacturer and retailer? That's like selling bottled Apple Juice which proportionately should be 50/50 water to concentrate, but selling it 98/2 water over concentrate? It is possible that what you say is true, then that would explain it but again that only means that profit is their only concern, not quality. Comparatively, all juices I have tried from other vendors are far superior even if (as I have written on their reviews and were posted without moderation) if tasted like anal sweat (yes I have written that).
ico, I too use reviews as a premise to my purchases. Seeing reviews from multiple individuals helps me gauge individual flavors and tastes, therefore the honesty of the reviewer and their ability to post freely without any editing or limitations of the vendor helps future consumers in their decision making process. I should have noticed that dates for each product review and such a gap between reviews is almost certain a "tell" that the vendor is moderating therefore the integrity of the reviews are immediately unreliable (yes that is my fault). However I have never seen a vaping site moderate product reviews for the purposes of avoiding a bad review. It happens and when it does, the vendor should work on product improvement, not hiding the truth.
I appreciate that since posting on the forum, this matter has received some attention, however if Ms ytsirhC is correct and this is their norm, selling severely under flavored pg/vg, then my case is already moot and one of the first things that should be stated on their site, if not for each product sold is that ALL products may only have a "hint" of flavoring and that you need to use their products, and only their products for some time to be able to detect the flavor. I can't go from Motts Apple Juice to Vapor4Life's Apple juice and later be told "taste is subjective as we cannot guarantee that our products are agreeable to every persons' personal taste preference" when the truth is that the juice was not properly reconstituted. Yet if for the past few months I only drink Vapor4Life's Apple juice, I will adapt and when they sell me a cinnamon Apple juice, of course I will taste the difference because I only drink Vapor4Life's AJ. But dare I again try Motts? If I do I will certainly be like "OMG WOW THIS IS INCREDIBLE!".
Sensei you confuse me. That last paragraph describes perfectly what I call subjective. It is present in just about every aspect of life. Some people think certain bands are the best band to ever make music. Other people hear that same band and think that their lyrics are terrible and their 3 year old comes up with better beats on his toy drum. Some people love the taste of Taco Bell. It doesn't matter to them that they don't use real meat, it's delicious! Other people hate Taco Bell and may think that their food tastes like 2 week old gym socks that someone forgot in their car trunk in the middle of summer in Nevada. It is all subjective, meaning what some people love others may hate. Your comparison of apple juice is a perfect example! What we like and dislike can be attributed to what we are accustomed to. I had a friend from CA who is from Chinese heritage, she came down here and we went out for "some really good Chinese food". She thought it was absolutely disgusting and the next time I went to CA she showed me what real Chinese food tastes like. It wasn't the best thing I've ever tasted, but she did make me eat a chicken foot...I digress.
I remember someone posting that the French Vanilla Ice Cream smelled and tasted like vomit, however there was someone else on the forum a few months later that couldn't wait for it to be back in stock because it was their all day, everyday vape. Another example is Ms ytsirhc saying that Apple Breeze has no flavor and then tastes like rotten apples. That juice happens to be my daily vape, vaping it right now actually, and while I do admit that my taste buds aren't very sophisticated, I love it! There are many juices that I like, but only a few that were love at first vape, this is one of the few. It is a perfect blend of apple and menthol. To me it tastes like a nice, chilled glass of apple juice!
So you see, it wouldn't make sense for Vapor4Life to make any sort of statement about how their juices taste, whether or not you should add more flavoring, etc. because no matter what everyone is going to have their own opinion of each juice. You can view many reviews of the juices and you will see that many are accepted. But again, if you wrote a review that simply stated "This juice tastes like nothing" when everyone else is describing the many complex aspects of the same juice...it may get approved, I don't know, I don't work there, but I don't know that anyone would find that helpful. I can understand how it seems devious of Vapor4Life to disallow reviews like "This juice tastes like vomit", but someone may read that and never try a juice that might have become their all time favorite vape.
That's it, you've convinced me! Taco Bell for supper tonight!:D
Could it be Sensei that you might be going through a deadened taste bud phase? If you have flavors from other vendors are you noticing a decline in flavor in those as well? I went through one of those, it sucked but the flavor has come back. Also not drinking enough water can cause it too. Just something to try, hope it helps.
Like i said .. Its not that there isnt any flavor, more of there isnt enough flavor for (MY) personal taste.
While Vapor4Life juice doesnt have enough flavor my taste, my husband thinks their juice has to much flavor. I often have to "water down" his Vapor4Life juice with extra pg/vg.
i think everyone is trying to say :) Taste is subjective. While I dont like apple breeze, Harmony loves it. I Love traditional menthol, it makes person XYZ sick. My hubby says Wow 555 taste good but to strong, while person ABC says not enough flavor in 555.
Exactly! As I said in my original post, several flavors I tried were too light for my tastes. But there were also a couple that were too strong for my liking. My point is that I do not believe that all of Vapor4Life juices should come with a "Warning: our juices have very little flavor" label because that isn't the case for everyone. I can understand how Sensei could come to that conclusion given his wide variety in his order and the fact that they all tasted like they had no flavor. If I had stopped buying juices after I found so many that I didn't like then I never would've found a couple juices that I love. I'm not not saying that everyone should keep buying juices from a place that they don't like. By all means find a vendor you are happy with. Vaping, imo, is an awesome journey and I think people should keep searching until they find what works for them. Personally I found what works for me, but I keep searching for the next best thing. We are all different and our journeys are going to be different, take us to different places and we will be satisfied with different things. I was just sharing my perspective on what happened and why I think Vapor4Life does what they do. Again, I don't work there, so I can only speculate. Just adding in my :twocents:
Originally Posted by Ms ytsirhC
Harmony took what I was saying completely out of context only to serve their own point, but I am not here to start fights because I can write until the Moon meets Jupiter and again, I am not here for that. I try to keep on point but apparently many regulars here seem to lose that and focusing on point is what I need to do here, so thanks Harmony but I will not be engaging in conversation with you regarding this matter ... unless you can keep it short and to the point.
Junenox, would it happen to 3 people at the same time? I recently quit analogs a few months back and my palette has been actually getting better. Foods more vibrant and all. I do not think my taste buds are numbing out. Also I invited 2 friends to try and they were disgusted by the lack of flavor. One of them even insisted that I toss the bottles based on concerns that the whole batch was tainted based on the viscosity and bad sense it leaves in your nose. Flavor, they both agreed was missing.
Harmony, either you haven't tried juice from other places (that actually knows how to make juice) or you haven't had juice from elsewhere in some time and forgot how juice should taste. I brought this over to a friend who makes juice for a few sites and he was the one who insisted that these juices were unflavored and a mistake was made. (side note, he makes only rooty frooty flavors which I am not fond of, I prefer traditional tobacco flavors, so before you ask why i dont get from him, now you know - and we kno someone out there was bound to make such a post).
I know you all are trying really hard to wrap your head around the "5 bottles of completely different items? how is this possible?" then "oh his first order from the site, he doesn;t understand how Vapor4Life does things", come on. Should Vapor4Life customers be given any less flavor than from any other site? shouldn't there be some common sense about "oh there's really no flavor in here" rather than "well taste is subjective and not everyone likes our flavors" when all I am saying is that there "IS NO FLAVOR". Again, maybe the pomegranate has 1 drop of flavor added for every 10ml (and i say that ONLY because there is an ever so vague and slight hint of something in there but not nearly enough to be considered a flavor, more like someone forgot to clean the bottle properly before filling it), but the standard ratio for mixing is far greater than that.
Take it for what you will, I am sure that readers of reviews on other sites will appreciate my warnings about Vapor4Life and how their customer service was not willing to reach out to help, in fact just the opposite. Oh and writing emails to me saying "please write to this person or that person. No Vapor4Life, no. I have reached out already. 3 times in fact and all 3 times I was pushed aside. You do not treat customers like that. You have my number on file, call me.
Anyone else, sorry to rant here but I must say that moderating reviews is very biased and people will NEVER understand and know what truth there is. If the point of a review is only to write a compliment, it's not truly a review. Reviews are meant for people to give their honest opinion and maybe the seller will make changes to better their offerings. 1 upset customer can really make a difference but do good by that customer, watch the recommendations fly in and the business will certainly increase.
For now, I am going dark on this topic. Thanks for the replies.
It was not my intention to incite any sort of fight Sensei. In fact, in several posts I have mentioned that I also have found juice that is lacking in the flavor department, imo. I am simply trying to point out the fact that while these juices are not to your liking it isn't a problem with Vapor4Life or their juice, it is a matter of personal preference. Although I did also state that there may very well be an issue with the juice and offered a few ways to have it checked by people who have the juice available and have prior experience with the same juice. Your last post just confused me because you defined "subjective" but then insisted that there is an inherent issue with all Vapor4Life juices that all customers should be warned about on the website. I did disagree with that statement and offered a few examples as to why I personally don't think that such a statement should be advertised on their site. You don't have to agree with me, you are of course free to have your own opinion. I am just offering a different perspective on what you consider a flaw. Personally I buy one juice from Vapor4Life and I buy many juices elsewhere. I have tried several from here and none of them did it for me. I'm not saying that their juices are bad, I just personally don't like them. I have run across many people that do like juices from here.
It was also not my intention to twist your words in any way. I read your post and responded, that is all. My apologies if I misunderstood your meaning.
I'm sorry that you feel cheated and that CS treated you less than satisfactory. I wish you the best of luck in finding juices that you enjoy!
SenseiNYC – you are way out of line here. It doesn’t take a whole lot of brain cells to understand why a company cannot replace juices every time someone doesn’t like their juice for whatever reason. But in the event that you just don’t get it, let me dumb it down for you: there are a myriad of reasons why people don’t like a particular juice or juices, and since they’ve been opened, they can’t be resold. If they replaced for free every juice that every customer didn’t like, they would be virtually giving away the store and they’d be out of business in a New York minute (ever heard that phrase?) as everyone would be ordering every single flavor out there to see which ones they liked. It’s one thing to replace a faulty piece of equipment; it’s another to give away the store.
Perhaps offering a constructive suggestion, such as the company should consider offering small sample sizes of their juices, might’ve helped. But that’s not what you did. You came on here like a bull in a china shop complaining that they won’t let you write a review that includes such classy terms (NOT!) describing the juices as “anal sweat” (your words). And then you wonder why no one is sympathizing with you. Every response to your posts so far has been extremely polite.
Most people realize that when a company doesn’t have the product that they like, they buy elsewhere. It’s really simple. You should try it.